Poll regarding Kayfabe rules of hentai in non-hentai matches.

tbh, I pretty much agree with what Yori and Lust have to say

Jstruggs716 wrote:
Not really does it tho as a face could easily do the same thing and still be considered a face without having cruel personality.

I'm sorry bud but I don't think it really works like that, whilst you //can// have a babyface with perverted tendencies and such, in the long term it's lots more logical really that heels are the ones doing as it as (with illegal hentai moves as the discussion said) it establishes that the heels are more than willing to bend the rules to their advantage, invading the privacy of the babyface wrestler who more than likely is quite uncomfortable with the sudden turn to hentai.

As I said, You //can// have a perverted babyface, it's a lot harder to write a likable good guy if the aforementioned "good guy" is molesting his/her opponent.

Yori wrote:

Jstruggs716 wrote:
But to me much more interesting hentai moves were legal than illegal move. And also don't see how it would inconvenience already characters and world building.
No real benefit in making hentai move illegal in standard matches neither.

Jstruggs716 wrote:Not really does it tho as a face could easily do the same thing and still be considered a face without having cruel personality.

Then you should simply do matches that allow for hentai moves and not be bothered by it. As mentioned above, not just by me, some people on this forum actual have characters that have no interest in hentai and are not involved in hentai related matches. Strictly from an in character perspective, they would have no reason to have even joined AFW with a hanging threat of being molested in the ring when they act as a professional wrestler.

We have also provided you with a few general examples and in Lust's case a more direct example on the benefits of them also being illegal for standard matches, being used a a tool for plot hooks, heel tactics and so on.

If you can't see how this is a negative proposal in the cases we have listed, I don't really think you are reading or understanding the points being presented. There is more to having an opposing stance than basically sitting back and being dismissive without any solid examples to promote your point of view.

Just have it to where in their contract it says that they won't get molested in the standard matches. And while admittedly I do mostly hentai matches but sometime when I do standard match I like to spice things up with a bit of hentai. I don't think hentai moves need to be illegal in standard match.

I don't see how that really a heel tactic when comparing beating up someone, possibly breaking their bone or neck with move like the armbar, kimura lock, or piledriver, possibly giving them permanent injures and preventing them from providing themselves or their family, and still could be a face just because they are not using move that make their opponent uncomfortable. Not trying to say that molesting someone is good but neither giving someone a concussion.

And I'm sorry if this makes me looks like some ass that disagree just to disagree and I do see a point about character who don't hentai style and not wanting to be potential molesting despite being a standard match. But even if hentai moves are illegal in standard match, they can still get molested in the ring regardless like their opponent using hentai moves in sneaking way and don't caught or get molested after the match, so if those scenarios happened, wouldn't they want quit AFW?

I just don't see any real harm in hentai moves are legal in standard match or at very least haves some hentai move legal and some that aren't.

I also see hentai as something that should fall under the No-DQ rule. If it is a no-dq match, in which case it should be as legal as pinning someone with a fork lift. In a standard match, it should be as illegal as a low blow, which does not mean that you can´t do it as long as the referee doesn´t see it. Still it shouldn´t be a free pass to strew it in whenever you want and if your RP partner is uncomfortable with it, either keep it very decent so that anyone can live with it or just leave it out. I personally find the idea of purpusedly wriggling your butt against the other wrestler not illegal and quite decent, even totally conservative wrestlers press their butt all the time against other people or lift them in the crotch area because it is mandatory for wrestling. The Undertaker probably had thousands of crotches right in front of his face over his careeer I guess.

Want to see a match where the hentai is steamy but totally decent? Look at Zulime vs Caroline Brooks - no hentai tonight. https://www.afwrpg.com/t18752-caroline-brookes-vs-zulime-lafitte-no-hentai-tonight I love it! Caroline is at first reluctant to get involved with the seductive Zulime but is later toally drawn in by her own desire and the seductive and alluring presence of Zulime.

In a recent thread that is also backstage, I had one of my girl sensually ambush another girl. I find the secnario very alluring, but I made it clear from the start that I would not continue when I felt that the target would be forced to play along all the way and wasn´t seduced at one point because even as I admittedly love lesbian struggle and seduction in all forms, I would never want to write humiliation and even worse rape fantasies. I was already pretty conflicted with desire vs decency in the scenario until RingRopes had a stroke of genius and made it a semiofficial affair by having an AFW camera record it, implying that contracts of the wrestlers include passages that outright allow such an in general heinous act.

Just have it to where in their contract it says that they won't get molested in the standard matches. And while admittedly I do mostly hentai matches but sometime when I do standard match I like to spice things up with a bit of hentai. I don't think hentai moves need to be illegal in standard match.

I don't see how that really a heel tactic when comparing beating up someone, possibly breaking their bone or neck with move like the armbar, kimura lock, or piledriver, possibly giving them permanent injures and preventing them from providing themselves or their family, and still could be a face just because they are not using move that make their opponent uncomfortable. Not trying to say that molesting someone is good but neither giving someone a concussion.

And I'm sorry if this makes me looks like some ass that disagree just to disagree and I do see a point about character who don't hentai style and not wanting to be potential molesting despite being a standard match. But even if hentai moves are illegal in standard match, they can still get molested in the ring regardless like their opponent using hentai moves in sneaking way and don't caught or get molested after the match, so if those scenarios happened, wouldn't they want quit AFW?

I just don't see any real harm in hentai moves are legal in standard match or at very least haves some hentai move legal and some that aren't.

You haven't properly explained why adding Hentai into a standard match would improve the flow, character, hook, or story of a match. The example you gave earlier was something that can easily be recreated using the Hentai match format or swapped out for a reversal if one wanted to use the Standard match rules. You keep saying you don't see our side, but then give little evidence to support your side of the argument. The solution of Put it in their contract is one I considered to be a bit flawed. As has been stated numerous time, there are characters who want nothing to do with hentai. The issue is if the entire standard match allows hentai and it has to be a stipulation to exclude it, then it is hardly a wrestling league anymore. Its a hentai haven. Why would these characters be here anymore?

Third paragraph you actually point out that characters would want to quit if the possibility existed that they would get molested which...yeah, they probably would. Which is why they wouldn't go into Hentai matches, or any match involving hentai. If it were illegal, It could be a great example of a story hook as to why one wrestler dislikes the other. Its conflict, which leads to interesting stories. Having it be illegal makes it more interesting, story wise.

The reason why I consider seduction and flirtation to be a heel tactic is because, and I thought I brought this up earlier, its an extremely personal thing to do and crosses quite a few boundaries. It is psychological, a trick to getting into your opponents head. Not everyone on the Roster likes being kissed, hugged, or making love, and while most faces won't do anything too affectionate once the distain is made clear, most heels don't care and do it anyway. It's a weakness that can be exploited.

If you want hentai moves to be used in a match, the AFW has a hentai division. It has a hentai Championship. It has characters specifically made and open to doing Hentai. Why not use that?

Tarantulust wrote:If you want hentai moves to be used in a match, the AFW has a hentai division. It has a hentai Championship. It has characters specifically made and open to doing Hentai. Why not use that?

Adding onto Lust's point there, with hentai stuff not being considered legal in ordinary standard matches, there would still be lots of ways to incorporate those things even outside of full-on hentai matches.

Some matches are listed as "standard rules, with hentai allowed." You could still do those as long as your RP partner is on board with it of course. There's also hardstyle hentai, No DQ/No holds barred matches, humiliation matches and plenty of others like those where hentai tactics can all be used in as well. Hell, you can come up with your own rules for custom match ideas too. Saying hentai stuff is illegal in standard matches would not take away your ability to do matches with those things if you want to do them. It would just be a clarification on a general rule in the existing nature of standard singles matches.

Jstruggs716 wrote:And I'm sorry if this makes me looks like some ass that disagree just to disagree and I do see a point about character who don't hentai style and not wanting to be potential molesting despite being a standard match. But even if hentai moves are illegal in standard match, they can still get molested in the ring regardless like their opponent using hentai moves in sneaking way and don't caught or get molested after the match, so if those scenarios happened, wouldn't they want quit AFW?

Jumpin' onto the gravy train. Choo-choo.

You have your right to share your opinion and no one will look down on you for it.

I think I understand where you're coming from (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) in that: "What's wrong with just having the option? The possibility is always there anyway."

Which is true. There's a possibility that virtually anything can happen in the wrestling ring. It's the difference between what's encouraged and what isn't; the difference between a promotion where those things happen versus one that allows those things to happen. That fundamentally changes how characters are made, how they act, and how we as readers perceive those actions.

For me the larger issue with introducing a premise where every match encourages the use of hentai is less in the roleplaying sense and more in the worldbuilding. It characterizes what AFW is as an entity and now every character past, present, and future would have to be re-centered around that. Even if indirectly. It'd be more of a hinderance than a convenience when thinking of new ideas, rather than just having the option there if you wanted. I personally lean towards what offers players the most freedom in their choices to not just do what they want in this world, but create what they want.

So, not to keep this broken record on repeat, but I'd pretty much agree with what Yori and Tarantulust have already laid out.

Jstruggs716 wrote:Just have it to where in their contract it says that they won't get molested in the standard matches.

This just seems like a roundabout way of saying: "In standard matches, hentai moves aren't allowed." Except this is character-specific. That's pretty much how it is now. But this now has the unnecessary quality of basically putting your character in a magic bubble to make them fit into the setting.

I would try making a well built, well written argument about my stance in this, but my opinions allign with Yori's and kc's so I see no need to do so since they did perfectly. I would rather specify "Hentai encouraged" or "allowed" before a match because if not every match is a hentai match. I think it is cooler to have this cool, famous family friendly wrestling federation that runs this under the surface kinky business than to have the lewd straight away. Of course some characters are more sexual and would go all kinky from the beginning, but either keep them subtle in regular matches or... just keep them for hentai allowed matches.

Whatever, I didn't have sleep and I cannot write properly.

I know I'm not...in a position to say much because I'm barely ever here, but what is considered 'hentai' varies from person to person as well. All my characters use smother holds--some people consider that a 'hentai' type move, but I don't.

TiefBlau wrote:I know I'm not...in a position to say much because I'm barely ever here, but what is considered 'hentai' varies from person to person as well. All my characters use smother holds--some people consider that a 'hentai' type move, but I don't.

Earlier I think kc generally defined it as things physically done specifically with the clear intent of stimulating the other person. Smothers have an inherent element of it but I don’t think they would count since their purpose isn’t necessarily to turn on/stimulate the person being smothered.

If assuming that’s right, then for example, a facesit smother would not be illegal in a standard match, but groping or fingering someone while smothering them would be unless specified otherwise in the rules for the match. That’s kinda how I see it anyway