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Civil War

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Re: Civil War

Post by Old_Man_Tai on Wed May 25, 2016 12:06 pm

Pretty sure he was only proved innocent of one crime, because he did still kill many people and frankly, "but I was brain controlled" doesn't really grant full innocence to things.

Like, sure, Hawkeye got off scot free in Avengers, but he can at least say he "made up for it" by saving the world.

Bucky did not save the world after breaking the mind control. He went into deep hiding.

I guess I'm not surprised people turned against Iron Man after this film, it did like, everything to paint him as a villain, even when it was Cap breaking all the laws and saying "Fuck You, I do whatever I want" to the United Nations.

One thing that bugged me, was that letter Cap sends at the end.

"Tony, I'm glad to hear you're staying at the compound. I hate to think of you being alone. The Avengers are like family, maybe more your family than mine."

Really Cap? I mean, one, the term "family" cause like, your best friend killed Tony's. Two: The Avengers are more Tonys family?

Lets see...Bruce Banner doesn't like Tony, and is off god knows where until its time to play buddy cop with Thor, who is in asgard.

He has Vision, who he's going to have issues with for crippling Rhodey, and Rhodey, who Tony is going to have guilt issues with after getting him crippled.

Meanwhile, on Cap's team, we've got Black Widow, Falcon, Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch, and possibly soon to be named Avenger, Ant-Man.

Soooo....Yeah. Tonys family is two people, which is really just one person.

Caps family is 5 people, 4 of which are official avengers. Oh, and ALL of Cap's family now completely and utterly hates Tony Stark with a passion.

So yeah, really weird for them to put that in Caps letter.

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Re: Civil War

Post by CybeastGregarX on Wed May 25, 2016 12:30 pm

The thing is though, he was mind controlled and Hydra did it. Bucky even showed during his interrogation after Zemo brain washed him again with the words that he regretted his actions, he was unwilling when he did all that and the fact that he remembers his victims before Hydra was exposed shows that he is also haunted with guilt and regret. If anything, Hydra was the true culprit for the incidents that Bucky was forced to do and they paid for their crimes, but since Bucky was more or less a fugitive in the governments eyes after Project Insight he had to go under and hide to try and get away from the world. He was more or less doing what Bruce is, hiding from the world to protect them from himself and try to live a normal life. The United Nations turned a really big blind eye when they put all the blame on Bucky, even after the truth was revealed to be a frame up. As Bucky was in a different country when the bombing happened, he couldn't have gotten between the places so quickly with what little resources he can scramble, and even then when they sent in the swat team they were sent to kill him, not take him in. They simply jumped the gun and and took what they "learned" and didn't dig deeper into what happened, something that Cap did not do and wanted to learn the truth which he eventually did. Also, Bucky's status as Roger's best friend, a former member of his strike team and the American Army against Hydra should have helped him bail from the charges on top of him being a mind controlled puppet during his time as the Winter Soldier.

Also, I don't remember the part where Bruce didn't like Tony, as they are good friends and Stark gave him a comfortable place to live while also the both of them making a countermeasure to try and contain the Hulk. (Hulkbuster FTW!!!) On top of the fact that they both agreed that creating the Vision was necessary to defeat Ultron and it worked.


Last edited by CybeastGregarX on Wed May 25, 2016 12:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Civil War

Post by Kitten on Wed May 25, 2016 12:30 pm

Captain Murica rules. Bucky is innocent and super hot. Tony is an old faggot jerk and everybody is happy he got his ass kicked.

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Re: Civil War

Post by CybeastGregarX on Wed May 25, 2016 12:34 pm

I did some digging and I found my rant of my switch from Team Iron Man to Team Cap.

Went in Iron Man, came out Captain America. They were truly in the right, if they were signed into the government it would cause more problems then solve them. The Chitari and Ultron incidents would have ended badly if the Avengers did not act right away on their own, and Hydra would have won with Project Insight and killed millions of innocent people, and Crossbones would have escaped with that hazardous material he stole. There was a lot more to the bombing of the accords and the governments just jumped to conclusions without doing any investigations at all. Cap knew something was up and wrong and acted to looked for the truth even at the risk of becoming a public enemy. And lastly, while Bucky was the one who did those horrible things, it wasn't his fault at all, it was Hydra's, Bucky was being controlled the whole time and did what he did unwillingly. Hydra was already defeated at this point after they've been found out and so they paid for their crimes but the government just keeps pointing their fingers at Bucky who was, in truth, a victim that was extremely guilty of what he did and wanted to redeem himself or disappear, but he wasn't given that chance at all thanks to everyone thinking he was the killer since he was framed and used. Even Stark knew that Cap was right in the end after learning the truth of the incident, but was overcome with anger and rage after learning that Hydra used him to kill his parents.

It all shows that true Justice is achieved by acting right away instead of waiting to be called on while everything is in chaos due to the committee taking their sweet time debating instead of just saying yes.

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Re: Civil War

Post by LunarWolf on Wed May 25, 2016 12:48 pm

You know.....the biggest foujr problems I have in the movies, and they aren't very big.

Spoiler:

- Captain America's literal line for why he doesn't want to sign the accord is cause he says the UN is run by people, and People's agendas change. Weeeeeeeeeellllll..........YOU ARE ALSO PEOPLE YOU SELF RIGHTEOUS FUCK! Razz

- Captain American and Bucky both commit massive acts of law breaking, such as assaulting police, stealing a motorbike, injuring people etc. when they are trying to run from the German Swat teams. I mean Bucky throws a cindeblock in a dudes face. I think he's either dead, dying or horribly disfigured. You aren't allowed to just do whatever you want just cause you got super powers m8 ~

- Those are the two reasons why I can't see that what Cap does is right. Cause he's full of himself and kinda of a badguy to begin with. You can't just follow some laws and ignore others. That's not how it works...

- Finally. This is not about Captain America himself, but more about a very particular scene. this is spoiler heavy though. In the end, Tony following the two to the final location, the old Soviet bunker thing was kinda not something anyone knew was gonna happen. Certainly not Zemo. Like it was an on the fly decision by Tony. After the big fight, he didn't instantly make his way there. So like....What was his plan if Tony didn't follow ? What exactly was he gonna do with that video if just Bucky and Steve had arrived ?

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Re: Civil War

Post by Alexandra on Wed May 25, 2016 5:07 pm


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Re: Civil War

Post by Mystery Dragon on Wed May 25, 2016 5:10 pm

I mean they were both kinda right, thats the point.

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Re: Civil War

Post by Alexandra on Wed May 25, 2016 5:18 pm

Nah. Steve was completely in the wrong.

I'm going to make a comparison here to the comics version of Civil War (yes, I am aware that it's two completely different stories, just bear with me here). In the comics, the Avengers had been around for basically decades when Civil War happened. They had a history of saving the world and being big damn heroes.

In the movie universe? They've been around for what, five years, I think? They don't have that history. Any government that would want to put limits and restrictions on an unproven superpowered team is fully in the right to do so, especially since when you look back at each of the major villians in the MCU, most of them were caused empowered or inspired by the heroes they fought against.

At this point in the MCU, the Avengers actually have caused more trouble then they've helped. Putting restrictions on them would be a GOOD thing.

What I really don't like about the film is Captain America doing a complete 180 from his character in Winter Soldier. He got mad about Fury's army of helicarriers because NO ONE SHOULD HAVE THAT MUCH UNCHECKED POWER, but when the situation is flipped on him and the Avengers are told NO ONE SHOULD HAVE THAT MUCH UNCHECKED POWER, he flips his shit and gets pissy about it. That REALLY bothers me. :<

And yes, while everything that Bucky did while mind-controlled wasn't technically his fault, remember that the MCU has set up Hydra as this huge, omnipresent organization. Anyone could be an agent of Hydra. How many more people are out there on Earth that know or have access to the trigger words to put Bucky back under control? He IS dangerous, and he DOES need to be restrained or locked up. Putting himself back into stasis at the end of the movie was the one thing he did right.

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Re: Civil War

Post by Mystery Dragon on Wed May 25, 2016 5:27 pm

He doesnt need ro be restrained he needs help, something that no one seemed to be willing to give him except Steve. And his issue with the accords were mostly the that fact that they would be working for someone elses control which hes seen first hand doesnt work very well, it came from his experince

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Re: Civil War

Post by LunarWolf on Wed May 25, 2016 5:33 pm

Like, I have to side with Alex on this.

Cap is in the wrong. Dude is literally going against the goddamn UN! over 100 countries have decided that they can't do this shit, which in truth they are breaking a whole SHIT TON of laws. Even having people write new laws to accommodate the situations so they can be a thing!

If People can go around capturing Inhumans for having super powers and that is not something the Marvel heroes are doing anything about, then shouldn't they be privy to the same kind of law restrictions ?

I will say this again. more than 100 countries decided it was wrong! It's a law now, what they are doing is illegal. They are people who are carrying weapons without permits. Steve might be a hero and all. but....in the real world. He is breaking the law and he thinks it's okay just cause he is the one who does it.

Tony Stark was right.

Also Bucky was not mind-controlled when he threw a cinderblock in the face of a task force agent. He should go to jail for that. None of the illegal stuff Bucky does in Civil war the movie, should be pardoned by anyone. He does a lot of them as well. Carrying a automatic rifle without a permit. Cause I doubt his old permit from before he was declared dead is still active. =P Having a super power robot arm, stealing a motorbike and probably injuring the drive in the process and even after all that! Cap still wants to help him cause...." He's my friend!" he is truly the guy who's agenda changed, and he just proves himself that he shouldn't be trusted to be allowed to make any decisions of what actions he's allowed to take.

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Re: Civil War

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